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Join Shannon & Christine as they chat about Intellectual Wellness with special guest Dr. Amanda Kemp.

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Shannon M. 0:08
Hi ladies, I am Shannon Mitchell, a black millennial business owner, the founder of shallow glow LLC, an all natural skincare company that helps you glow from head to toe. I am a champion for your daily self care, business care and intentional wellness.

Christine Gautreaux 0:21
Hey, y’all. I’m Christine Gautreaux, a white social justice advocate, and international speaker, coach, published author and dancing social worker who helps you upgrade yourself and community care.

Shannon M. 0:35
Together, we are women connected in wisdom, a podcast grounded in the eight dimensions of wellness.

Christine Gautreaux 0:39
And we like to get together every week for intentional conversations between us and special guests about how to be wise in business relationships. And well, like how do we do this? How do we do this? In the midst of everything else? We’re doing?

Shannon M. 0:53
So many questions. And you know, I was talking to a shout out to my best friend earlier I was talking to her. And it’s interesting how in life, one time, the choice that is the right decision will be the option that’s the wrong decision. You know, if you have a family now, or if your money is different, or if one piece of the situation is different, that completely changes, what the best course of action will be for you, you know, and that’s why it’s so important for me to have you ladies to run stuff through like, hey, what do you think about this situation? Because I learned when I sat down when the COVID started, that I was only doing things the way I was taught how to do them, you know, I was only doing things one way. And I might not even think about the possibility of doing it another way, and not in a doubtful type of way that Oh, no, that’s not going to work, but just hadn’t considered it. So that’s why I love intellectual wellness to like, what are all the different ways you can learn and learn new things and apply them? And where do you get your information from? Things like that?

Christine Gautreaux 1:51
I love it. Some of the best changes have come in my life from a friend or sometimes even a stranger asking, Hey, what do you do that this way? Or like I was taught to do it this way? And like broadening those perspectives, and you know, there’s sometimes we get perspectives or we get people that we listen to that we’re like, yeah, no, that one’s not for me. Right? I was at a conference last week. It was a really cool conference. It was like, yeah, no, that’s not for me some of the things they talked about. And but you don’t know unless you listen, unless you check it out. And then you listen to your inner authority also, about does that resonate with me? Is that true? Right?

Shannon M. 2:33
I like that hashtag inner authority. Yes. And it’s important to think about where your information is coming from. And sifting definitely helps me, you know, this is the part that I’m going to take. This is the part I think I can leave. And even sometimes, and we’ll talk more about it, when we’re in the conversation with our guests, probably, but it’s remembering the limit that I have on new information. Do you know I had to stop listening some of these audiobooks, we’re going through the book, our book multiple times, these other books are gonna have to wait for a second because of information overload, you know, so be mindful of that, too. All right.

Christine Gautreaux 3:09
I love that. Yeah. Because you can get, I was one of my people that I follow on Facebook, Heather Platt, she does a lot of work with holding space. She’s up in Canada. And she was talking about decision fatigue, right? And I think, yes, like, we can learn all this new information, we can make all these and they’re sometimes they were full, like, we’re on our final, final, final proof.

Shannon M. 3:34
No, really, really, in the final, final edit of these labels. Just learning new things and learning how to pivot like, in the middle of everything, that’s what just being creative of how to get to the solution. Still, even if the one way that you thought you were gonna get there doesn’t work. It helps. And for me, again, we’ve talked about this, the checklist helped me with that decision fatigue, right, I don’t have to choose to drink water. I know that I should be drinking water in the morning and at night and throughout the day, of course, but um, me doing that helps it not pull as much willpower. You know, the same thing for my uniforms at work. Yes, I have cute outfits that I wear when I’m a floor manager for the restaurant. But they’re also the same clothes, just different colors. So I’ll have to do is mix and match. Because I’m operating like a billionaire. And I don’t have to worry about what I’m going to wear. It’s just is it clean? Or is it not? So yes, decision fatigue, I hear you.

Christine Gautreaux 4:29
Well, being intentional. What I hear in what you just said is you’re being intentional. And when you know your values, and when you know what’s important to you and where you want to put your time, then that helps you to make intentional decisions. Yeah. So. So you have a little bit of that extra energy left or right. Yes,

Shannon M. 4:47
say no. So

Christine Gautreaux 4:49
you can say yes, absolutely. That’s number five skill of self care. Right. So you mentioned it to our listeners earlier, but do you want to expand upon what we’re talking about today.

Shannon M. 5:00
Yes. So today we are talking about intellectual wellness. And that includes having access to different sources of information and developing critical thinking and timely decision making skills. Also continual learning through intentional intellectual growth situations, and artistic creativity can help maintains one intellect, maintain one’s intellectual capacity.

Christine Gautreaux 5:24
I love that definition. I love that definition. Because so often, you know, we think it’s just school, or it’s just this line of studies and intellectual wellness is so much more like that we can expand ourselves and keep going. I think we talked about, oh, it was the training we did last week, we were doing after the show, we were lucky enough to go train mosaic George’s staff, they are an assessment assess Assessment Center for folks who are dealing with trauma. And we were lucky enough to go talk about the eight dimensions of wellness with them. And we were talking about intellectual wellness, and Wordle came up. So this is one of the things with my family that we do, we put it in the bucket of intellectual wellness, but we have a group chat. And every day, somebody will do the New York Times Wordle, where you have to guess the letter, and then we’ll put you get to see the results in this fun little color coded box of like how many times it took you and things like that. And we we share that with each other. And I just I look for fun ways to bring in intellectual wellness.

Shannon M. 6:33
I think that’s really important and everything in general, you know, to be able to have fun with it, whether it’s financially or even spiritually, you know, I know spiritually, sometimes it could feel heavy, it’s so important. What’s going to happen after these type of questions can make it a little more of a serious topic for a lot of people, you know, but I think about it as a relationship and every part of the relationships that I want to have have a little bit of fun, a little bit of playfulness, like you brought up. So I think it’s important to remember.

Christine Gautreaux 7:02
Well, I’m excited to bring on our guests today. Are you ready? Yes. All right. I’m going to read her bio, and we’re going to bring her on. I’m delighted to introduce y’all. Dr. Amanda Kemp works with healers and feelers, my type of people who are rooted in justice, but no, we need to jump paradigms to experience liberation. She’s an Amazon Best Selling Author and a racial justice and mindfulness mentor. We want to welcome to our stage Dr. Amanda Kemp. Yes.

Amanda Kemp 7:37
Hello, gang.

Christine Gautreaux 7:38
Welcome, welcome. How are you today?

Amanda Kemp 7:42
Girl? I’m sleepy. Like there must be something going on energetically, you know, or else some of us are doing a lot of work in our downtime. You know, we’re out here working on the energetic level.

Christine Gautreaux 7:57
So I would completely agree with you on that. Absolutely. Where are you streaming in from? What part of the world are you in?

Amanda Kemp 8:04
Lancaster, Pennsylvania. That’s about an hour and a half, two hours out of Philly.

Christine Gautreaux 8:10
I was driven through there before and I actually grew up in Lancaster, Texas. And that interesting. Stiller. Yeah, so I’ve always been fascinated by that. Because you know, when you’re a kid, and you realize there’s different places in the world that are named the same thing. So I driven through there once because I want I was doing something up in that part of the world. And I wanted to see it because of where I grew up. So it was it was awesome, beautiful green.

Amanda Kemp 8:41
It’s very free. And I feel blessed. I didn’t grow up in a green space. I grew up in New York City, primarily. So you know, I grew up where there was a sign saying don’t don’t walk on the lawn. You know what I mean? And we were supposed to keep away. So it’s really nice to live somewhere. That’s green and lots of trees.

Christine Gautreaux 9:02
Yeah, well, and you are a person that talks to the trees, right? Yes. Tell our listeners about that. Because we met through the AWARE foreigners group and got connected on LinkedIn. And you I can’t even remember what post you were talking about Dr. Kemp, that I was like, oh, I need to know her better. And she needs to make reference to SEO like because we have conversations already, but about the trees and nature. So

Amanda Kemp 9:36
you get some of your wisdom from Oh my gosh. So in April 2021. I was about to keel over from this real burst in my business. And but I just couldn’t make myself stop somehow. I thought I was just too essential. You know, so I got a message from myself. I had a business call Whose method of assessing you for making decisions was to help you tap into your deep self. And so I got a message from my deep self that said, Stop everything, talk to the trees, they want to adopt me. Yes. And as I said, I was raised in the city, I was raised primarily in South Bronx. So for me, you know, nature is a little bit scary, I grew up with it being, you know, not familiar very much, you know, everything has a street name and lights on all the time. So it’s really been a journey to get to this point where I was willing to sit down and journal with the trees and get to know them by like, like, No, that’s a white pine, and that’s a, or a star, gum tree and whatnot. Like, that’s not what my PhD is in. So. But when I started to engage with them, what I found was a lot of love, just so much love coming out towards me, and acceptance and encouraging me, like touching the earth. And the green was what was needed for now.

Christine Gautreaux 11:16
I love that I was doing a women’s group, I was participating in a women’s group two weekends ago. And we were doing some exercises around this, like about really getting in touch with where you live. And going around and identifying the trees and and I had done a lot of this work in my labyrinth I have, I’m lucky enough to have this backyard that has this kind of hidden garden and has a labyrinth and I do meditating out there and all those things. So those trees and I know each other really, really well, because I seem to them often in the morning. And but what I hadn’t realized is that I kind of keep that part of myself hidden. And then I hadn’t been in the front yard talking too much. And it was fascinating because when I went to the front yard, I realized one of my big trees in the south part of my lawn is a red oak. And I graduated from Red Oak, Texas, like it was fascinating. It was like this is one of my guardian trees. And I didn’t even realize that the connection. So powerful work when you start looking at this.

Amanda Kemp 12:26
Yeah. And speaking of that, I actually I have a big oak in my back area. And I call that Papa oak, because it felt very masculine and protective energy from it. And you know, I was dialoguing with that tree. And Papa Oh was like, you know, thank you finally waking up. We’ve been holding, pulling it down for you here. You know, and you finally awakened so we can partner. So yes, yes.

Shannon M. 13:00
So that’s what I have a question about, would you mind going more in depth about how do you partner with the trees? How do you so you feel this loving energy, right, which I definitely get from nature, I love being outside in nature. How do you? What was it that made you notice it? And then yeah, what do you do with it?

Amanda Kemp 13:21
So I felt very awkward at first when I got that message from myself. So I just started very simply by sitting down outside, in under a tree I pick, you know, I have lots of trees where I live, so I picked a tree. And I just said, just start a very gently with Hello. Like that, you know, hello. And then just leaning back against the tree and trusting myself like saying, Okay, well, if, if I knew how to talk to a tree, what would I say? And what is the tree saying back to me just playing with it. Actually, Shannon, not putting too much weight on it, just allowing it to but making a commitment to show up and to write. And the other thing is that I’m in a spiritual community where it’s important for us to value and to make offerings, you know, to the natural world to say thank you. You were mentioning gratitude earlier. So when I was a little girl I used to sing all the time. So one of the things I reawakened in myself is just waking up and walking around in the yard and singing as an offering to the trees.

Christine Gautreaux 14:49
I have found that singing trees love when you sing to them. And I don’t I used to be awkward about that to Dr. Coat. Like I’d be like oh They’re seeing it, they’re gonna be calling the people with the white coats to come get me. But it’s very funny because when I meditate and I don’t sing, I get a message like, hey, like, what? Like. And I also notice, like when I’m in nature and connecting with nature, often nature gives us gifts back. Like, they’ll drop a leaf, or they’ll drop something, and there’s no wind, it’s like, they just like, here it comes. And I’ve had that happen several times that I’ll ask a question. And it’ll be answered with a shake of a tree limb, or a or a gift coming in. It’s, you know, at first you’re like, Okay, I’m not making this up, what’s happening? And then the more people I talked to, that have had this experience, like,

Shannon M. 15:51
yeah, and I think about I think about movies and stuff, you know, and as a precursor, not that I use movies as a judge for reality, okay, just because I know that’s important. We’re talking about where we get our information, right. But there are also a lot of movies about trees talking and, you know, the powers that they have, and all this stuff. So I don’t think that’s just from nowhere, you know, everything that lives breathes in communicates a certain way. So the Earth is alive, you know, the move the trees, the trees, blowing the wind and are rooted down. So since talking to us is still and talking to the ladies, on women connected in wisdom, I’ve definitely been more intentional about thanking the birds for singing. Hey, birdies. Good morning, you know, a little tune though, echo back and just really appreciate the beautiful earth that we live. Yeah,

Amanda Kemp 16:48
I think it’s like re inserting ourselves into the web of life. Yeah. And I was just reading this book called Finding the Mother Tree by Suzanne, smart. You can find she’s on TED talks, she’s, you know, her book is really doing really well, which is really good. I love it that was doing so well. And you know, she talks about the mother tree or mother trees as having this incredible photosynthetic photosynthetic capacity to support the whole web of life. And we were just doing a self forgiveness call in my community today where I was liking us some other trees, some of us have agreed to be here on the planet at this time to anchor peace and to anchor a vibration of love with justice, you know, and in order to, to feed the web, the rest of this web of life, we need to consciously open ourselves, to the light to love from the trees or from our ancestors, from elders in our community who love us unconditionally. It’s almost like practice, taking that in using the trees as a model for how to live, you know, and how to give. Because, in my experience with trees, when I’ve asked them about, you know, I am someone who maybe is accurate to say, is an over giver, or has in the past like given to the point of complete depletion, right? Especially when we consider ourselves essential people and we’re in Virgo season so there are a lot of Virgos out there, you know what I’m talking about, we love to do our sacred work, and made it is why we’re here it makes us feel alive, but we can overdo it and then we’re out of balance. And what the trees told me when I was talking to the trees about guilt about when do I know I’ve given enough given enough time given enough money give enough attention to others when is when you know and me frankly feeling guilty? Like every time I say know that? Am I being selfish Am I Am I exercising my privilege, you know, and what what the message I got back was feed the core, when you feed the core, so the roots and the the trunk of the tree the inside than what you give will naturally flow to the outside meaning those branches those flowers, those fruits, you know that there but first we have to feed the core feed the unseen. So the work that we do in the world is usually seen it’s you know, the things that we write, it’s the people who we serve. It’s the products that we send out to people and I’m looking forward to my my shea butter, yes. Right but the trees were like, first you feed the unseen and then the unseen. It feeds the scene and with be patient with ourselves to receive first, and when there is not enough there to pause to trust to pause so that the, to catch it up so that we can then feed the scene.

Shannon M. 20:20
I love that. Yes, it is. Yeah, it’s really deep. And I think that is relevant on so many levels. You know, even like my hair, I’m like, why is my scalp so dry? Oh, well, my hair is really long. Now sucking all the water out, let me put some more water in my scalp, you know, so I moisturize the scalp first and then everything else but when other people helping the core, I think that’s so important. You know, sometimes people will ask us for like the extremity stuffs, maybe they don’t want to do it. Or we they see that we have a skill. But that might not be the time or place that we would spend the emotional capacity or whatever capacity would take. But if if your real friend and you really want to do it, that’s a great question to ask yourself, you know, is it the core of this person? Or will it not take away if I can’t be there like I want to?

Amanda Kemp 21:12
Yeah. I think this thing about feeding the core, it’s almost like trusting. Well, it’s also good. It also affects like what we consider our worth, I was talking to another entrepreneur, friend of mine, woman friend of mine. And you know, truthfully, you know, you may see me for an hour and 15 minutes leading a presentation, right? Meditation, a workshop, coaching you mentoring you? And you may say, Oh, well, that was only an hour. Amanda, why does it cost X amount? But let me tell you, what does it take that has to be fed to the core the unseen before I can show up and give you the seed? You know what I mean? And I think that when we think about what we charge what we’re worth, or is it too much, we forget that for every one hour of seeing, there’s probably like five hours of unseen preparation. And and the other piece is that when we when we articulate this to people, we help to uplevel each other. You know me when you say no, I can’t give you that for free? Or no, I can’t barter with you on that. More. No, no, I can’t do that thing that you would like me to do. You’re being honest. And you’re giving them a chance to reckon with what there’s no or not at that price, or whatever it is feel what does that feel like? You know what I mean? It’s almost like up level each other out of our scarcity and victim? Kind of?

Shannon M. 22:59
Yeah, the paradigm that you’re talking about. And I think even financially, you know, I want to know, I what I’m working on is not being scared of the price. I don’t want to be scared trip is $5,000. Okay, it’s $5,000. Now I know how much I need to make, you know, but the thing is, when you don’t know what to budget, when these five things are usually free, now you have unrealistic expectations. So I’m enabling you, or our undercutting your development, because you’re gonna go into another situation thinking you have everything you need. And now you’re going to be disappointed because you’re not going to get to the solution, because you’re unprepared. You know. So if I can set you up saying, Hey, this is realistic, then I feel like it helps in that way too.

Amanda Kemp 23:44
Yeah, that’s a good point. And I feel like, you know, someone told me her rate, right. And I was like, oh, what can you do for me for x rayed? And she said, Okay, I mean, I talked her down. And then and then I thought about it later. And I said, No, Amanda, to that. This is her rate. You know what I mean? It’s almost like, honor that, because I want to be honored. Practice with each other. And this is what I mean, about we get in that circle of scarcity. You know, and, and it takes courage. I think it takes I’m in the middle of, you know, designing where, where I go forward. And you know, for people want to work with me one on one, do I learn to work with them? And, you know, and what does it take to work with me? You know what I mean? I’ve been out here a minute. I’m expensive.

Shannon M. 24:37
Hello, Ed. You talked about raising the price? Yes.

Amanda Kemp 24:44
I was. I was at a retreat at my house and in my part of me said, Oh, it was talking about sacred work and sacred marriage was saying like, I’m only available for sacred marriage and safe work, and I’m very expensive. You know what

Christine Gautreaux 24:57
I mean? Yeah, just stay ate it. I love that I love I was thinking about what you said earlier with had been used to being over giver, and so many of our listeners. And I’m guilty of that. And like it’s just I think that’s what’s expected a lot of times until we start having boundaries and feeding that core first. And I was thinking about that I had to have a conversation today with a board I sit on that said, I need to back off because I have you know, we’re under all these deadlines. All this is happening. And, and I think that I was thinking about that when you when you were talking earlier about the courage it takes because you know, I love this organization. I love the work they do in the world. And I need to pause and feed my core, because branches are starting to fall off. So even having that in the awareness and the noticing in ourselves, because it’s easy. I mean, for some people, it’s not easy to say no to the bad stuff. But it gets easier as you practice your boundaries. Right? It gets easier to say no, no, thank you not gonna do that. No, not. But I’ve been finding lately. It’s harder. It’s, it’s hard to say no to the good stuff. Yeah. And you got to because you can have too much good stuff.

Amanda Kemp 26:23
Yeah. I think Shannon hit it when she said, you know, how much can you take in? Right? It’s like, we each, it’s almost like getting really clear on your lane. And then staying in it. You know what I mean? Like, for me having a very long and extensive background and racial justice and my PhD and African American Studies and, you know, that was my lane. Right? So long and now what’s really evolving as my lane is this symmetries, it’s a it’s about helping people to get to this other dimension of wisdom and having that inform everything we do. But that’s like a new lane and what people want me to do, or people have paid me to do previously is the old land you know, sort of switch takes some courage and groundedness so connection to your to the wisdom, you know, our connections that give us wisdom. Yes. And I’m, I’m gonna say like people around you who are going to support you in a narrowing down. And this is the thing okay? We’re Virgos we like to go specific. We’re not like, oh, wow, let me do every flower in the garden. You know, certain types of us are very good and we go really real pinpoint it.

Christine Gautreaux 27:56
So you can Nish I’m the exact opposite Dr. Camp I like Nishan is torture for me. But I love that about really figuring out. One thing that is bubbling up for me as you speak is I could name five people right now that are going through this very exact same thing, that people are being asked to switch and do things different and look at things in a different way. And listen with all their senses. Listen with everything. So I have a question for you. I think I already know the answer, but I don’t know. So. So my family like we will literally take trips to see certain trees in the world. And do you have like a favorite tree or a favorite place you go or anything that you’ve done like that? That you are like oh, if you’re ever in this part of the world come visit this tree.

Amanda Kemp 28:55
Wow. I love that question. Um well on my where we live the lamb we steward we call it cuckoo ly day. And we got closer to it because of the pandemic when everybody had to stay home. So we finally said our behinds home and started to appreciate the physical space that we were co creating with Right. So there’s a tree here we call her regenerate because she regenerated herself and after being cut horribly. And she was a mentor to me that summer when I started to connect with trees, so half the shout out to regenerate Papa oak I love because I feel safe. So these are trees on my property. So if you come to kukula day, maybe for one of our our women’s retreats, you’ll get to experience them sit underneath them, make friends with them. There is a tree I do want to see it is a it’s supposed to be the oldest white pine line.

Christine Gautreaux 30:00
Hey y’all, this is a great place to take a break. Take a deep breath, and hear from our awesome sponsors that make women connected and wisdom podcast possible. Shannon, we are so grateful that Shayla glow is the sponsor of the women connected in wisdom podcast. And I wanted to take this moment to ask you when you think about the people who use Shayla glow, where are we talking about?

Shannon M. 30:25
That’s a good question. I think about three groups really one group that’s removing hair, right, so whether you’re using laser hair removal, waxing, shaving, you got to make sure that you’re putting back what you’re taking. Now the second group, I think about those with dry skin, and the problems that that might cause right, the scars, itching, burning, whatever the situation is, you definitely need all three steps, right? The exfoliation making sure you’re taking the dead skin cells off the oil, putting in the moisture, and then the shea butter with the aloe, sealing it helping you heal those things helped both groups, right. And third, for the third group is those with chronic illness. You know, the story is personally from cancer and different diseases that our population is dealing with on a daily basis throughout families as individuals. So I’m thinking about my mom and my grandmother, and those around me with the same generational ties, right, and what positive healthy habits, we can start to make sure that we’re maintaining our wellness, especially because the skin is like the cape, the exterior the shield for your immune system. So with COVID We have to be intentional about covering ourselves. And those are the groups I think about.

Christine Gautreaux 31:38
I love it. And you know what else I love about your product? It’s all natural, handmade, and it smells great, y’all, so yay.

Shannon M. 31:47
Yes, Esthetician tested and approved. Yes. Yes. What about you? When you think about your company? What groups of people do you think about?

Christine Gautreaux 31:57
Well, you know, I work with individual coaching clients, I work in community classes and with corporate teams, and with all of them, I use a strength based embodied approach to help folks connect with themselves and access joy, reduce burnout, and build resilience. You know, especially during these times, I think we need it. I think we need all the hashtag partnership power we can get.

Amanda Kemp 32:20
Yes, there is a tree I do want to see it is a it’s supposed to be the oldest white pine in the Northeast. It’s in Western Massachusetts, and my birthday is coming up soon. Okay. So I was thinking, huh, and my husband said he would take me, you know, anywhere I wanted to go. So I was like, Hmm, maybe I want to take a drive up to see that tree. It’s it’s a little, little bunch of old growth forests that got missed when they were doing all that cutting and logging up there. In the northeast.

Christine Gautreaux 32:55
I recently visited a tree in north Georgia that was like the second oldest poplar, that the same thing or the second largest Poplar. And the same thing had happened it had gotten missed, they thought it was the largest. So they they purposely didn’t cut it when they were cutting a lot of other things. And it ended up being the second or the I can’t remember it was one, but it was huge. And it was off this trail. And we purposely went to go visit it. And you know if you’ve ever stood in front of some of those grandfather, grandmother trees that are just ancient. So another favorite of mine is Angel oak tree off the South Carolina coast. If you ever get a chance to go see it, it is one of the oldest oak trees on the East Coast. And it is huge. She is just a beauty and sprawling. I’ll put the I’ll put the notes in the show notes, y’all. But anytime you’re near Charleston, South Carolina, there’s a tree that that folks need to go visit because she’s magical. Like we visited her every time we’re in that part of the world is we go say hi, Shannon, do you have any trees that you love to go visit?

Shannon M. 34:06
No, I haven’t been that intentional about my relationship with the trees. You know our chapter in the book about the relationship you have with your home and the space and interestingly enough Naruto and talking about the village in the leafs has made me appreciate being in the trees and the green like Dr. Kemp was talking about so not yet. That’s what I’ll say Not yet.

Amanda Kemp 34:30
I love that. Not yet. Because for all of us. We’re all evolving, right? Yeah, you know, and for me, it’s trees, some of the for you for other people it might be I think you were mentioning refurbishing a hawk.

Christine Gautreaux 34:44
Oh, I was getting a heart. Yeah. The birds show up for me very often. And we were in a women’s group and the hawk didn’t show up for me this time. It showed up for one of my friends, but we were literally doing ceremony and this hot comes to Her window, pecks on the window, and did not leave until she went over and did this little dance like she moved to the left, the hug moves left, she moved to the right, the hug moves. And then once the hawk and her saw each other and like, had this little repertory, then it left. But it was not leaving until she came over and acknowledged it. It was like, Hey, pay attention, because I’m here, I’m here to bring you a message. And so, you know, I think when you start being aware of those things, when you start being aware of the natural world, being able to partner with you, and bring you messages and and talk to you. This same weekend, I was I was doing a labyrinth walk, I was doing a ceremony, I was meditating and doing this homework that we were supposed to do, because it was a virtual conference. And so we weren’t together. So we were supposed to do this homework before we got together the next morning. So I’m often in my labyrinth at sunrise. And so I’m holding this homework, I’m walking towards the center of the labyrinth, the minute I stepped into the center, I look up and here’s this doe that is literally right across the fence from me looking at me, and, and she didn’t step up there until I stepped into the Senate and Lamin. And then we have a little conversation. And she jumps over the fence and walks around my labyrinth, which she’s often walking through the center of my lab, and because I see her knocking over, like I know, who’s been there by the way the rocks are moved and their patterns and things like that. But she walked around and just hung out while I was, you know, finishing my homework and saying hello to the morning. And, you know, it was pretty powerful that she’s like, Yep, I’m here. And during that part I was part of my homework was I was listening and asking my land, that the land that I steward the history of what had happened there. And I was getting very clearly at that time that it was a place for hunters and gatherers. And it was a place of, of travel and right when, you know, kind of I was thinking and the images were coming about and hunting and gathering, you know, you got this deer walking through. It was wild, it was it was pretty special.

Shannon M. 37:12
I love seeing it. And it’s interesting. When I think about nature, I also think about the industrialization. Right, we’re so separated, because we’re not out getting water every morning and picking the berries and wondering where the meat is gonna come from and setting up the tent into the ground. Now we, if we even leave the house now, you know, it’s completely different. We don’t have to worry about the spices coming from the other side. We’ve had them our whole life, but my whole life, right. So it’s interesting, but you said a word that I want to talk a little bit more about Dr. Kim evolve, right? So I think it’s interesting your work with self forgiveness right now. How do you what was your journey? Like from it? Maybe it wasn’t the starting point to this ending point. But racial justice and having those conversations with the people around you to self forgiveness and sitting under the trees.

Amanda Kemp 38:04
Yes, yes. Well, I’m so I’m going through another transition in my life right now. But the first when I started to expand my spiritual perception, ability to see and hear and feel beyond my Christian upbringing, and I just expanded it. And I, I, when I was praying about a play, how to like, make it more heartfelt. It was a play about Benjamin Franklin and slavery. And so, an answer to the prayer a poem came and the poem, the first line of the poems was, you know, the ancestors are calling you, you know, the ancestors are calling you. They say, Remember me, they say, Forgive me. They say, I forgive you. And that was like, that came straight through an analysis like, wow, they say, Forgive me, they want us to forgive them. And, you know, those are Benjamin Franklin slavery. So you could say it’s about forgiving white people for slavery. But it wasn’t saying the white ancestors were saying, forgive me, it was saying they say, so. What I got from that was that their lead they were letting me know, we’re in this web of mutual forgiveness, like, I forgive they’re already forgiving me. You know, for what I haven’t even done yet. You know what I mean? And so that’s that really was my start down this journey on forgiveness. And, and what made me think of self forgiveness as being so important I was when I got married for the second time and I was in a, we created a biracial family. And, you know, and it was a hard road, it was a hard road. And I had to have no, I didn’t have to, at a certain point, I was at the limit of my intellect, and of my emotional capacity. And so what needed to happen was for me to hold myself with compassion. So that’s another word for forgiveness, if forgiveness kind of throws you off, it makes you think, you know, some, something is not going to be able to countable start with self compassion, holding myself gently. And what’s evolved for me since that time, which would have been around 2015 16. to Now 2022 is coming to a place where I know there are lots of parts of me, you know, I could name it by body, or I could name it by age, different parts of me energetically, that exists. And we’re not going there’s no way for me to go through this life by trying to kill any part off. You know, there’s no, there’s no, there’s no murder. You know, I mean, you could lie to yourself and think you can just, you know, repress something to death. But it will show it shows in us physically, right, if even if we doesn’t show it in us, you know, apparently, psychologically, it’ll show up in our bodies. So this work of self forgiveness, of holding myself with compassion definitely has been confirmed by the trees. And the way that they say when I was talking to regeneration about how she dealt with her wounds, first thing she said to me is, you know, dear one, she’s like, dear one, I’m going to try to help you understand this, but I don’t look at it the way you look at it. For me, this is not a wound. She said, something happened. And then another tree close to us, told me she said, I said, Why do you look so good? She said, Because I have no past. And I said to the tree, but you have ring. I was like, I’m tired of getting this message. She said, Oh, she says, Oh, yes, yes, I have rings, he says, but I don’t hold on to anything. Everything that happens passes through me I give it to the mother. So this is like, if you hear it, this is very disruptive. Because the way we normally hold things way I’ve normally held things is good things happen and there are bad things happen and the bad things that happen need to be accounted for. And people need to take responsibility, etc. But what they’re what these trees are saying is something happened. I don’t hold it as a womb. I let it pass through me to the mother

so Wow, so then I hold myself How do I hold you you know now we’re moving out of the paradigm. We’re moving out of the paradigm of right and wrong and us versus them we’re in a

Christine Gautreaux 43:23
powerful what does that Eleanor is listening today hello Eleanor. We always love it when you’re here. She says an excerpt from the redwoods Joseph Strauss to be like the straight true and find to make our world like there’s a shrine st download traveler on your knees. God stands before you in these trees.

Shannon M. 43:47

Christine Gautreaux 43:51
and brandy shout out. Hello, Brandy. sending you lots of love. This is so good. Thanks for this conversation.

Shannon M. 43:57
Of course, of course. Okay, so self compassion. I hear you and I hear you want the I grew up in New York. We were supposed to be on the grass. Right. So can you tell us a little bit more about that? How you? I mean, I guess how would you describe that? From not as much interaction to now talking to the trees? Yeah.

Amanda Kemp 44:21
So um, I just want to honor so I was born in Mississippi. I was born in Biloxi. And my mother’s people my mother’s line is from Alabama. blackbelt farming people who moved for a better life to the Gulf to the Gulf Coast. So I was like, how do people move to Mississippi for a better life. But that was in our in our family story. And so we historically I feel as African descended people in the United States, we have had this intense relationship with land with nature. If you read Toni Morrison’s beloved, the plantation where all the Shi T went down was called Sweet Home. And what they remembered about it was how beautiful the trees were. So we’re, we have that in our lineage, right? And our delay, but then for safety, so many of us fled, or were run out of our, our spaces, and then we end up in the cities, which are, you know, loud and divorced from nature. And, you know, like, it wasn’t till I was in, I think I was 2223 I met a dance teacher when I was in LA. And he said, every day, make sure you get on some earth. I don’t remember another adult telling me that before this teacher said that, and, and how essential is that to feeling grounded to actually letting your feet touch Earth, better barefoot. But even if you have to keep your shoes on at least get the feet on the ground. You know what I mean? And for me when I was a little girl living in the Bronx, I wanted to live in a house, I lived in the projects, and I wanted to live in a house, I wanted to have, you know, something smaller. I wanted to have something more humane. And for me, that’s what a house meant is what a yard meant. And, you know, and then eventually, you know, I left home, I was in foster care, and I left and I went to a boarding school. And all of a sudden there was a lot more green. You know why? Because the green is often in big city areas is is relegated for the wealthy. You know what I mean? So, anyway, so over the course of my journey, and it really has been a slow journey of going forward toward nature pulling back going forward toward nature and pulling back. I, I have I have become someone who hugs trees. And I don’t know if you remember this, because I don’t know how old y’all are. But there’s a point at which when you call someone a tree hugger, that was an insult, you know, especially if you were a change maker if you in the movement. And you know, Oh my What are you a tree hugger? And I remember people criticizing Alice Walker, novelist, poet essays. Because she evolved in her work toward this, you know, engagement with nature. And, and, you know, I remember one of the poems said, you know, when they do something bad to you, like when they kill your children hug a tree, when they do XYZ hug a tree. And then just remember one of my, you know, one of my contemporaries at the time being like, for real Amanda, for real. And that was like, there’s a wisdom in that because we are talking about if we really want liberation, I think we need to shift the paradigm. Okay, I don’t want to get too controversial, as by say, some, it’s okay to say it. But a paradigm shift is not mistaking the current system, right doesn’t mean stay in us versus them. You know, when I mean, I mean, talk about a real paradigm shift. And justice and punishment are not the same thing.

Christine Gautreaux 48:33
That is so true.

Amanda Kemp 48:36
And accountability and tearing people down is also not the same thing. So we look at, if we look at ourselves, holistically, this perspective, forgiveness, we look at ourselves holistically, then we got to find the space for all of me, including the itch Bay, you know, who wants what she wants, when she wants it and doesn’t want anyone else to come first, you know, the including, you know, this soft, really afraid part, you know what I’m saying? All these are parts of me. And if you want your child you know, if you love your let’s say you have a daughter, which I do, and you just want the best for her, you know, then you want a new paradigm for her so she doesn’t have to do what she had to do to survive.

Shannon M. 49:31
Yeah, it makes sense.

Christine Gautreaux 49:33
Such a powerful conversation. Dr. Kim, thank you so much.

Amanda Kemp 49:39
Thank you. I really, you know, I feel like we’re, we are evolving together. You know, I don’t think we could have had this conversation 10 years ago. You know, we could have in my

Christine Gautreaux 49:51
backyard when nobody was listening, but

Amanda Kemp 49:59
that’s yeah, It would have been happening in small, very private places. This is becoming a public conversation that’s appealing to a wider and wider range of people who don’t consider themselves to be precesses. Or, you know, in the weakling thing or the pagan thing. It’s really broadening out. And I’m grateful for that. And I’m grateful to the precesses who were holding it down when it had to be underground.

Shannon M. 50:26
Right. So, every week, we do a wisdom and action, right and not just knowing more information, but actually putting it into motion. So for this week, Dr. Camp when you think about intellectual wellness, what are you working on? What’s your hashtag? Huh?

Amanda Kemp 50:45

Shannon M. 50:47
Huh? Let me see

Amanda Kemp 50:50
what you said Shannon, okay. Ah, whatever Am I have a we did a women’s we did a queen’s retreat. And the first thing that we said effort was, huh, I am enough. I have what I need. I trust me. So I encourage you when I’m working on is we don’t need more information. Right now. What we need is to integrate and use our inner authority to sort it and then to take action.

Shannon M. 51:32
I love that. That’s what I’m gonna do this what I’m gonna do for mine to hashtag actually. So I like to sort and take action. I think that’s definitely helped me. Let’s see. So forgiveness. What am I working on this week? Intellectual wellness. Let’s see. Oh, that was for our call before. We were talking about conquering conflict. Let’s see. Do you have yours Christine? What is your wisdom and action this week?

Christine Gautreaux 52:00
Actually do mine is going to be hashtag feed the core. Yeah. metaphor, and I think I’m gonna do two and hashtag go hug a tree. Because we’re not doing enough a day all so I am. You know, before today, I’ve been a like a really quiet tree hugger. I mean, my my people know that I’m a tree hugger. But you know, I know we usually talk about it. But yeah, I love hugging trees and hanging out with the trees and singing into the trees. And I just and what you said Dr. Kemp about get outside every day. We talk about this on the show. Like, it’s so simple. But it’s so necessary get outside connect with the earth connect with the trees, connect with yourself in this process. So my hashtags are going to be hashtag feed the core and hashtag hug a tree.

Shannon M. 52:53
I like it. Mine is hashtag barefoot and loving it. People I’m from Alabama to right people are all yours. A country girl like your you like your feet without? Yes. Without shoes on it. Yep. From the country. And yes, you’re right. I like putting my feet on the ground. So I’m gonna do that barefoot and loving it.

Christine Gautreaux 53:12
Oh, thank you. I love that. I love them. And for our listeners out there, feel free to add your comments, add your hashtag, what’s your wisdom and action this week? Give us some feedback about this conversation, like and subscribe where you’re listening. And Dr. Kim, thank you so much for coming. I feel like we could keep talking for hours. But we do have to wrap. So thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom. Before you go, we’re gonna put it in the show notes. But if people want to work with you and find out more about your work, how do they do that?

Amanda Kemp 53:46
Well, they can go to Dr. Amanda camp on YouTube comm they’ll come to my channel. And specifically, there’s like a beautiful meditation that I lead to help you get in touch with the feminine divine that you connect with. So look for that there.

Christine Gautreaux 54:04
All right, we’ll put a link to that in the show notes. And you have also so graciously offered our listeners the free link and tell them a little bit about the free offer that they’re gonna get on the in the show notes.

Amanda Kemp 54:16
Yeah, yeah. So basically, if you sign up for this guided meditation, to help you get to forgiveness of yourself to holding yourself with compassion, to holding yourself just the way the Divine Mother or the earth mother or the feminine, divine, whatever it is that works for you to be able to see yourself that way. That’s what this meditation is. So that’s what the show notes will lead you to.

Christine Gautreaux 54:43
Thank you so much. Thank you for your work in the world. Thank you for coming and sharing it with us and we’re so delighted to be connected.

Shannon M. 54:53
You’re welcome. Yes, thank you.

Christine Gautreaux 54:57
Oh my gosh, that was so yummy. I looked up and I’m like, almost an hour.

Shannon M. 55:02
Every time that happens, like we’re out of time already, but you gotta have in the conversation. Yeah, it doesn’t have to be limited to just now but

Christine Gautreaux 55:13
oh, I wanted to put Eleanor’s hashtag up here. Hashtag Mother Nature knows and loves you. Yes, Eleanor so true. I love that. Yeah, me too. Well, any last words, my friend before we wrap episode 81?

Shannon M. 55:32
I don’t think so. What I actually, you know, always say I don’t think so. And then I come up with something. So what I’m thinking about is, you know, sometimes it can be overwhelming. You’re trying to learn new things, start a business work different hats to wear all the different parts like Dr. Kemp was saying the parts of yourself that show up in your everyday lives and your responsibilities. Sometimes it’s difficult to be intentional about continuing to grow, you know. So if you need support in that we do have women connected in wisdom the community, come join us be part of the different ladies who were doing different things in each dimension, you know, and if you need support and intellectual, we have experts for that financial, spiritual, physical. That’s why we’re building it so that you don’t have to do it alone. And you don’t always have to be the person with all the answers might be a tree. It might be Christine, it might be Dr. Kim that can help you with that. So get connected and stay plugged in.

Christine Gautreaux 56:28
I love that. And y’all before next week, we’re launching the women connecting wisdom virtual conference. So we will have links to that in the show notes. The website’s not quite live, but it’s coming in the next couple of days and ways that you can register for this free comps conference. I almost had concert but I don’t know if anybody’s singing we’ve got Dr. Joe vz, we might have a little concert

Shannon M. 56:53
to some trees. Who knows I’ve been known to hold. Hold a tune,

Christine Gautreaux 56:56
right? totally love it.

Shannon M. 57:00
Yes, well, okay. Ladies, thank you so much for joining us for episode 81. We’ll be back live next week for the end of season nine. Okay, before we launch our book, yes, so excited. In the meantime, don’t forget, be well, be wise.

Christine Gautreaux 57:17
And be whole. We’ll see you next time.

Satimara 57:26
Thanks for listening. This has been the women connected and wisdom podcast on air live on Wednesdays at 5 pm. Eastern via Facebook and YouTube. Be sure to like share and subscribe be part of the conversation and get connected at women connected in