The Physicality of Grief - Physical Wellness with Dr. Sheila K. Collins ⋆ Women Connected in Wisdom

Shannon M. 0:08
Okay ladies, welcome to our podcast. I am Shannon Mitchell, a black female, millennial entrepreneur, the founder of Shiloh glow, a handmade shea butter company. I am a champion for your self care, business care and intentional wellness.

Christine Gautreaux 0:25
And I am Christine Gautreaux, a white social justice advocate and international speaker, coach and published author who helps you upgrade yourself and community care.

Shannon M. 0:35
Yes. And together we are women connected in wisdom, a podcast grounded in the eight dimensions of wellness. Welcome, welcome to our show.

Christine Gautreaux 0:44
And we like to get together every week for intentional conversations about how to be wise in business relationships and wellness. And talk about intersectionality a lot of times right about where all these things crossover. I was literally at a campsite with my phone turned off when some people joined us and started telling me about the Supreme Court ruling and started telling me about what was going on. And I didn’t fully plug back in until Sunday and start to read everything and read the decisions and what was going on. One thing your friend did send me Do you ever read Anne Lamott?

Shannon M. 1:29
No. Okay, so

Christine Gautreaux 1:30
she is a Christian writer and I want if you’re open to it, Shannon, I want to read you what she wrote because first of all, she cracks me up. And, and I thought you would really appreciate it.

Okay. She says we’re all doomed. Resistance is futile. Oh, wait, nevermind. What I meant to say was, could somebody please send me the operating instructions? Oh, wait, nevermind.

our marching orders are all over the internet, with links on how to donate to the cause of women’s reproductive rights, how to aid and abet abortions on the grassroots level links to where the marches and rallies will be and how to help control keep control of the House and the Senate. In the meantime, filled with rage, fear and despair. I remembered a piece I wrote for salon 20 years ago on the brink of war in Iraq. So I dug it out and have retooled it here for the current nightmare. It was called hard rain.

Everyone has a hard time with life lately. Not with all of it, just the waking hours. Being awake is the one real fly in the ointment. But it is also when solutions come to us. So many precious friends died or got horribly sick this year. So many school children died in shootings, the world burned. One out of seven women in my country is getting breast cancer. I can’t even wrap my mind around that. Some of our animals died and but on top of it all like a dental X ray apron is the depression of life with this freak show of Trump’s Supreme Court. It’s all hopeless or friend muttered, which I kind of like in a person, which I almost believe to be true.

Nearly every time I remind myself of Friday’s ruling, I think of the old New Yorker cartoon of the two prisoners chained high above the walls of a prison cell one saying to the other Okay, here’s my plan. My friend who is usually a crabby optimist, like me is terrorized. He’s worried about Russian nuclear bombs the permafrost and life as we know it under an endless paranoid misogynistic right wing conspiracy. He also sometimes talks about life and shelters in caves. Now this would not work for me, shelters would be bad enough. A dinner party is a real stretch for me. But I don’t even remotely have the right personality for cave dwelling. I need privacy and silence most of the time. Also, I hate to like tights. And it’s a Democrates goes cave camping.

Luckily, I am old and will not long enough live long enough to see that. In the days since Roe vs. Wade was overturned, I’ve stepped up my due good efforts, a dependable counter force to the dread. I went to demonstrations sent money to Planned Parenthood and UNICEF and signed petitions.

Always, always, always when you don’t know what to do help take care of the poor. I love that. Always, always, always when you don’t know what to do help take care of the poor. I prayed like a mother and auntie a grandmother. And I bought some flowers to plant which is a form of prayer. God only knows how this will all shake down.

But in any case, as left wing religious people should try to stay on their good side. It’s not hard. God has extremely low standards. Pray, take care of people be actively grateful for your blessings, give way your money and you’re cool. You’re in nice room and heaven near the dessert table flossing no longer require, which is what will make it heaven for me. Oh, and Jesus. During the build up to the war on Iraq, I rented the movie Independence Day, I wanted to see what it takes to mount an effective resistance against an alien takeover. This is what the current SCOTUS feels like to me. And according to the movie, it turns out that we have everything we already need. We have a great cause, protecting the lives health and equality of women.

We’ll get a break or two in the next few months if we work like hell to hold on to the Senate and House. And we caught one alien, Clarence Thomas. He handed over the insanity codes when he announced his conviction that overturning Roe vs. Wade is just the beginning. He took the lid off the stewpot. So we could all peek in about how the aliens think it was a big catch. And I started to feel hope again. And that because we had all these things in place, a cause impending breaks a big catch. Now all we needed was to get back to work. Maybe goodness would prevail. Maybe not. But probably. And as Molly Ivan’s wrote years ago, freedom fighters don’t always win. But they are always right. John Lennon said, everything will be okay. In the end, if it is not, okay. It’s not.

And I do believe this. I just do. I believe that love is sovereign here. And goodness, I just do so we push back our sleeves. We fight back left foot, right foot, left foot breathe. And I believe we can do it. Send a really send a really I just do. That was from Anne Lamott. For those of y’all that are just tuning in. And I don’t know, I read it. And she made me laugh. Yeah, maybe cry a little. And it was like, yeah, like we have the ingredients.

Shannon M. 6:58
Yeah. And that’s the biggest thing that gives me peace in all these situations is I have what I need, you know, if I don’t have it, I don’t need it. What’s for me is for me, and nobody outside of myself can stuff that you know. So when I think about all the different details that change that stays the same and I think that helps me keep my peace of mind.

Christine Gautreaux 7:19
It’s a good way to look at it. What are we talking about today? What category of wellness are we talking about today?

Shannon M. 7:25
Today, we are talking about physical wellness. And physical wellness is the ability to maintain a quality of life that allows you to thrive in your daily activities without undue fatigue, or physical stress. physical wellness recognizes that our daily choices, habits and behaviors have an impact on our overall health, well being and quality of life.

Christine Gautreaux 7:49
Love it. Yeah, and I love our guests today, for those of y’all didn’t know the show, she’s not gonna be a stranger. We first had her on the show back at Episode Four was

Shannon M. 8:02
a long time ago.

Christine Gautreaux 8:04
She was our third guest and Dr. Sheila K. Collins came on to talk about emotional and mental wellness. And we wanted her to come on today to talk about physical wellness for a couple of reasons.

One, she’s amazing and could talk about any dimension. But also she’s one of the authors in the upcoming women connected and wisdom book. And she wrote about the physicality of grief a dancers reflection on the art of grieving. So if you’re ready, my friend, I’m going to read her bio and get her up on the stage. Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Sheila K Collins, PhD believes that in facing life’s toughest challenges, grief, loss, illness, disabilities, death of a loved one, we mature into who we truly are. Her writing, teaching, speaking, and improvisational artists performances offer through thought provoking insights embodied practices, and art based tools to help people deal with what life presents to them. Her award winning book warrior mother fierce love unbearable loss and the rituals that he’ll describes her journey with two of her three adult children and her best friend through their life threatening illnesses and deaths and the rituals that helped her family to heal. Using her background as a dancer, social work Professor therapists and improvisational performing artists, Dr. Collins demonstrates in her online in in person presentations, how art based tools have helped her and can help others live joyful, embodied lives.

Her engaging, often humorous 2016 TEDx talk when death threatened someone we love demonstrates the challenge of being a caregiver to a loved one dealing with death defying illnesses and the gifts presented in such circumstances. Her book for professional and family caregivers revised with co author Christine Gautreaux. In 2017, is still point a self care playbook for caregivers to find ease, time to breathe and reclaim joy. It contains art based tools, skills, point stories and embodied practices, providing encouragement and support for caregivers to take care of themselves while taking care of others. Since the pandemic began, these two authors have taught weekly classes online based on Stillpoint attended by caregivers from all over the world. Dr. Collins upcoming book is titled The Art of grieving her blog dances with everything is available on her website and Sheila K collins.com, which we’ll put in our show notes, and the audio version of warrior mother narrated by Sheila is available wherever you get your podcasts. We want to welcome to the stage our friend and colleague Dr. Shi, like a call for how are you my friend?

Sheila K Collins 10:57
I’m good. I’m good. Little catch in my throat. But um, yeah, no

Christine Gautreaux 11:03
worries. It’s been a big week. Yeah.

Sheila K Collins 11:09
Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Gautreaux 11:11
When you tell you, Oh, go ahead.

Shannon M. 11:14
No, go ahead. Sheila just came on stage. Oh, heck.

Sheila K Collins 11:18
No, I’m just glad to be here. And I’m proud of you, ladies. My gosh, when we started out, I think what is it? The usual podcast last 10 sessions. So you’re way ahead of the curve at this point? You’re on a roll. You’re right. That’s, yeah,

Christine Gautreaux 11:38
absolutely. And we have met such amazing people along the way. And we want to stay connected to our folks who are like our crew, and you are definitely one of our crew. So we wanted to bring you on to talk about physical wellness, to talk about the physicality of grief, because a lot of people I know, clients and communities are grieving right now. You know?

Sheila K Collins 12:06
Well, that’s one of the things that I, I’ve had a lot of personal grief in my life. And after you get a whole bunch of stuff, you know, you kind of say, well, what can I do with this? Or what am I supposed to do with this? And I learned so much from those personal journeys, that I felt like, well, the way I think of it is, you got to make art out of what happens to you, and you don’t get to pick what it is. So that so that was trying to kind of look at what had happened to me and and going through kind of looking for what was it that helped what was it that didn’t help that sort of thing, and just increasing the understanding of of grief, and, and recognizing that it’s something that if we’re lucky, we get to do all our lives, and episodically all our lives. And, you know, and maybe we shouldn’t, maybe first of all, we should get better at it, you know, and get better at supporting one another through it. So that’s where I’m going with the next book and a lot, a lot with my blog.

Christine Gautreaux 13:21
Well, and when you say if we’re lucky. And that’s, I think I understand what you mean, because you and I’ve had this conversation a couple times, but I want to make sure our listeners understand that. We’re lucky to grieve because that means we’ve had connections, and we’ve had authentic relationships and right, is that what your Well, that’s

Sheila K Collins 13:39
part of it, it part of it is we don’t grieve, you know, the really bad stuff. Usually we’re like, thank goodness that’s over with or I’m glad that crap cloud isn’t around anymore. I mean, congratulations, you know, you got rid of him or her whatever it was, that was a problem. So no, it’s the people that we love. It’s the things that we love. It’s the it’s our values that we hold so strongly. And when that is impinged on or lost, or seems like it was like it’s last. It’s sometimes hard to keep going on. And interestingly enough, the fact that we’re talking about the physical, I think one of the strongest things that I that was like a aha moment for me. I guess it was after my daughter had died, and I had gone to an acupuncture and I said, you know, I know I’m supposed to eat healthy and all that but I’m just, I am too tired to hold my fork. I mean, so and he said to me, yeah, he said, grief takes your chi grief takes your cheat. So nobody tells you that when you go through these things, the big impact, just number one is, you know, basically your inner He is gone. You You can even imagine, you know, no matter what you might want to do or not do, you know. So it’s it’s interesting that we’re talking about the physical, how physical all of this hits?

Christine Gautreaux 15:14
Well, and we often hear it like I hear it from artists and activist and I know you two ladies do two on this call about how I just want to go to bed and pull the covers over my head, right. And I know I need to be doing something or I know I need to be responding. But I’m so tired. I just saw what you were saying Sheila is really that manifestation of that grief or anger in our bodies. And our bodies just say to lay down, get horizontal?

Shannon M. 15:41
Yeah. And that’s what I was gonna say is, that’s what I was excited when Christine told me she invited you on for this week with physical wellness, because you do talk about dancing and dancing through it. Right? That’s been something we’ve been talking about this year, moving more through both the grief and the gratitude. But I think that pairing grief with this conversation about physical wellness is timely with the law change and everything that we’re talking about. So that we can give space to how we feel and why it might feel overwhelming, or whatever that might look like for the different people who have been affected by it, and how to how to genuinely in a healthy way, continue

Sheila K Collins 16:22
forward? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, and I think it’s the Valerie Carr is work about revolutionary love that really has inspired me also about this, she she says, We have to shift we have to shelter we have to hold on to we have to treasure our joy, because that’s where we have the energy to carry on. And so it isn’t like, we’re not, you know, affected.

I mean, we are affected, of course, and we’re not denying that, you know, things are really bad. But what is it that feeds us? What is it that how do we be together and, and, and keep the joy going or you know, in reinfused, the joy, the love that what it is we’re really working for or fighting for. And, and we’re not when I think of my dedication to dance, it’s dance, the dance is how you do joy. That’s I mean, you can’t dance and not have joy that I mean, that’s just you know, now it’s not gonna you’re not gonna have joy for the rest of your life. It’s just, it’s, it’s a momentary thing. But it’s a very important momentary thing. What simply when Henry refers to as a glimmer of hope, we get a glimmer of hope, when we are joyful. And we also have moved more Shannon to that side of the gratitude, rather than the sorrow, I mean it, we hold it together and dance with it, and dance with it. I think that was one of the things I write about in one of the books. In one of my books, I had this experience where I was at a retreat. And we always put the pictures of the people that were the pictures of people that were praying for and you know, up. And so I was doing a dance because that’s what I do. And, and I looked over and my son’s picture was there. So I just grabbed it. And I just danced with it. And it just felt wonderful. And he was at that time dealing with AIDS. And and so of course we were all praying and praying for him. And after I finished one of the women and Christine knows this woman. She said, Well, you she said you’ve just demonstrated my religion. I said, What do you mean? And she said, Well, I was Sophie, and we’re taught whatever life hands you pick it up and dance with. So that was such an affirming thing. And I’ve thought about it many many times. Pick it up and dance with it. I love

Shannon M. 19:05
that. And they don’t say that, you know when life hands you eliminate, grab one in each hand and twirl around the floor with it. You know, but I like it. It’s a new spin. Maybe you get tired of lemonade sometimes. Maybe you want water in a dance with the lemons.

Christine Gautreaux 19:21
I love that Shannon? Well in the physicality of shifting our energy. Yeah, I mean, we know if you put on music, I mean, we dance in every week. And sometimes we come in with all the weak stuff and we may not be in the greatest mood, but we start dancing to that music and we start shifting the energy. And then we can show up with our full presence and dance with what is right. That’s it. Yeah. Right. And I want to acknowledge because this was me before I found in our play, I like to zip out of my body. Like I would you know how you always called zipping out like I’d be Like three steps behind my body, because how in my body was painful, or it was, it wasn’t like staying present was uncomfortable, until I found tools and skills to be able to do that. And, you know, in therapy terms, a lot of times people call it disassociating, and things like that in order to handle and handle what’s going on, right? Which a little of that’s not bad if you need to check out and be on your phone or do whatever. But for the majority of the time being physically present physically, in our bodies, able to show up with our whole selves is how we live our full and complete lives.

Sheila K Collins 20:41
Well, that’s how you have access to your resources. Versus aren’t behind you three steps or right, or just in your head, I think of it like a big head, a big head. And we’re trying to figure it all out. And and it gives us a headache. Figure it out, you know, so yeah,

Christine Gautreaux 21:01
well, oh, go ahead chin.

Shannon M. 21:03
And that’s why I was looking forward to talking with the ladies about it being connected in wisdom and seeing what the community is saying about it. Because as a young woman, and I thought it was important to share this on the podcast, too, that I don’t know, if I know all the ways to consider the changes, you know, I’ve never been pregnant. I don’t have children yet. And that’s been a great thing for me through COVID as we’re building businesses and things like that, but as a woman who, when they look forward to having children, I’m like, How do I even wrap my mind around how to think about this? You know, how do I give action steps to the ladies and resources and tools to address the issue and not minimize it or kind of address it? But then I’m missing the whole point, you know, while still remembering that, hey, even though you haven’t been in this position, and thankfully had to make that decision, is still directly affects you. So what does that look like?

Christine Gautreaux 21:57
We are the only first world country that does not have equality for women written into their constitution.

Sheila K Collins 22:06
I didn’t know that.

Christine Gautreaux 22:07
Yeah, I was doing research about this, because this Supreme Court ruling was the first times the Supreme Court took away rights from its citizens, instead of expanding the rights. And it you know, the if we don’t have autonomy over our own bodies as women, what do we have? Right?

Sheila K Collins 22:32
It’s, it’s interesting, I, in my own the art of grieving I, I postulate that grieving is an art that we can learn and get better at. And I also am saying that the arts can be very, very informative, can be very, very helpful, because they often touch into bigger, more.

I don’t even know the word for it, like the bigger picture, the bigger historical picture. And so I just want to mention it. I’ve written my blog about it this week, in relation to this thing that’s going on. And in grieving losses, we have to name them. It’s important to name them sometimes people are grieving them and realize that because they haven’t really said, Oh, hey, by the way, we just you know, this just happened or whatever, or something that is happening in the big world. And I don’t, I’m not all tuned into it, but it’s still affecting me. And physically, even in my energy.

So anyway, I look to the artist, Margaret Atwood, and Margaret Atwood, of course, wrote The Handmaid’s Tale. And I can read you a little section of she said, I stopped writing it several times, because I considered it too far fetched this notion that was the inspiration for it was in the 17th century. For that, she it was that Puritan religion, the Puritan religion was affecting the laws and the lives of New Englanders taking away, you know, their their rights.

So she says, So I consider this as too far fetched. Then she says, silly me, theocratic dictatorships do not lie only in the distant past. There are a number of them on the planet today, and what is to prevent the United States from becoming one of them? So if we have this feeling, it’s not just about as you’re saying, Shanna, you are small, which is important I’m not saying but but to just realize how big it is what we’re up against. We got to you know, we got to really name this here. Yes. And then she says that in there is there is this little matter matter of state religion, where Which of course is forbidden by the constitution. So that these are her words that which is a sin within certain religious beliefs is now to be made a crime for all. Oh, we have to take a big breath on that. So, because it’s not really settled, exactly when life begins and all this scientific I mean, it’s not. So when people have their inspiration and bless them for that they need people need to live their life according to the rules that they feel makes sense. But when you start inflicting them on other people who don’t share those religious values, it’s another deal.

Shannon M. 25:48
It’s absolutely yes. And I’m, I love reading a lot of books. Right. I have not read The Handmaid’s Tale, but I did watch the show. I know that I’m sure there’s differences.

Sheila K Collins 26:01
But you got it.

Shannon M. 26:03
I mean, right, you’ve got the point of it, right. And driving through the city, and just the states and the different places we traveled to COVID. That’s exactly what I was thinking about. I was thinking about how the highways were shut down. They weren’t able to travel. And I said, look at these empty schools and these empty buildings. I said, this looks like The Handmaid’s Tale, you know. So and when we’re talking about abortion, and the laws changing, and the restrictions to access, something that was a paradigm shift for me this past week, is that I always think about abortion as a choice, right? Am I pro life or Pro? Whether the two different sides is pro life, pro life or pro choice? A poor choice? Right? Those are the usual ways that I would think about it those two sides, what I hadn’t thought about is that this is treatment for certain conditions. And these conditions are not usually talked about, you know, if somebody’s pregnant, or when they’re due, what the gender of the child is, are usually questions when they’re going to have children or youth is usually the questions, but the conditions that women face throughout pregnancies and how we handle those and be well through those situations, I usually haven’t heard us dive into. So that was something that I’ve been thinking about a little bit more this week, too.

Christine Gautreaux 27:23
Right? Yeah, I mean, women’s health, right is at the front of it. And it is it is women’s health and women’s privacy. Before we get off Margaret Atwood, I just have to give a shout out because I got to see her speak at the parliament of world religions in Canada, in Ontario, Canada, and she is a Canadian treasure, right? They, she’s a rock star as she should be. She’s written more than 50 books of fiction. I didn’t realize that many like she is a prolific writer, and impactful. So Shannon, I hope you get to read it, you know, that came out in 1985. And I read it I think first in college, and it was such a powerful. Right? So powerful. You’re a huge reader. So

Sheila K Collins 28:14
watching it. I watched some of it on television. It was painful. I mean, I watched but it’s, it felt too real. I think more recent, when she wrote it, she was saying, Well, this is you know, too crazy. I mean, this would never happen. It’s like, it’s happening. It’s happening.

Shannon M. 28:33
And I mean, we talk about history and what’s happened. I have not, let’s say I have not studied history enough to know if it did or did not happen. But when I think about slavery is not too far off. You know, we’re tracking the ovulation and seeing when we can reproduce it. Let’s go ahead and get it done. So that is what I thought about with reading the book. I said, let me watch. So I can I love making sure that I keep in perspective, the different points of view have different lives, you know, especially in the woman’s spectrum. So I love to watch it to make sure that I’m not naive in those ways, but always the same way. I am just like an allergy or just like boundaries, mindful of what I take in. That’s what I was thinking, Christine, when you said you should read it. I said, I don’t know if

Christine Gautreaux 29:24
right now it might be a good idea. Well, you know, one of the things and you know, we’ve talked on the show several times about Stillpoint and the five skills of self care. And you know, one of the skills of self care is pulling out for a broader perspective and seeing how all the moving pieces of the parts. And I think about that when I think about this, because what I started to do as I start to look at history, I start to research where is what are all the moving parts of this. Why is this happening? How long has it been going on and we’re going to link into our show notes. There is the history A lot of where it came from. I pulled it up. And I don’t know if I have it right in front of me. But it gives the history of when women’s health care was taken from the midwives from the wise woman from the herbalist. And the American Medical Association was established all white men, the white male dominated patriarchy that started telling women what they could do or could not do with their bodies and started making it illegal to access certain things. Right. So there’s the history of that of the white supremacy. There’s also a history of racism in in this, you know, the first and I know we were talking about for the show, Shannon, and did you write down his name the father of gynecology.

Shannon M. 30:48
I did not write it down, but I can pull it up real quick,

Christine Gautreaux 30:51
right. So he was known to do experiments on black slaves and without anesthesia, like treating women as property and especially black woman, and for his own curiosity, and, you know, some of these decisions are based in this in this historical thing of not treating women as equal and able to make decisions about their own body. Part of the thing in this video I was watching is about, you know, when women are pregnant, they’re hysterical and can’t make decisions for themselves. Right. And that’s why also taking the power away from from their own their own selves. So it’s really interesting when you start looking at it’s interesting and terrifying when you start looking at the history. And you start looking at that arc.

Shannon M. 31:40
Yeah. And his name is James Marion sins. And when I was reading the research, because again, we were talking about this before the show, I was reminded of this question that I was asked when I was an RA in college, and I was in a one on one with my supervisor. And he was new in the position. He said, you know, asking questions, seek to know you guys better if you could be born 100 years in the future, or 100 years in the past? Which one would you choose? I said the future said, Okay, well, that was quick. Why so quick? And I said, Well, hello, right. Hello. I’m a young black woman born in Birmingham, Alabama. No, thank you. You know, and Mr. Simms here established one of the first, arguably the first hospital for women, and Montgomery, Alabama. And so I’m thinking if it wasn’t too far off from 100 years that I was being asked about, that he was in Alabama, and I probably would not have had consent, you know. So when we think about it, and when we think about the dimensions of wellness for me, I’m gonna be honest, I struggled with my response to the news, because it almost wasn’t there. Right? Because we have so much stuff that we’re dealing with personally, we have to separate and that’s one of the skills of self care, right, sorting, what’s yours and what’s not. And so for me, it was on the outer realm, because I’m not planning for parenthood right now. Those are, I don’t worry about having to make that decision. And so it’s been a little further removed from my considerations on a daily basis. And so that’s the again, that’s what I’ve been thinking about, why is it removed? And how do I make sure that I have the consideration that I should to be empathetic to myself and to my community? Because I know, historically, as a black woman, there’s the list of things that we could talk about, when it comes to concerns and things to be intentional about?

Sheila K Collins 33:36
Well, one of the things we can all do is vote. And but we don’t want to take that for granted. Because, you know, sometimes that’s been messed with too. But I think that part of the weirdness of this whole argument about the originalists going back to the Constitution to decide these, these issues. We weren’t in the Constitution, the three of us for sure. I mean, and our ancestors. And we have actually women have only had the vote for 122 years. So when Abigail Adams said to her husband as he was going out the door, I guess she wrote him a letter and said, Remember the ladies, and he didn’t. And they did. So we weren’t in it. We weren’t.

Christine Gautreaux 34:28
Well, and go ahead. No, go ahead, Christine. Well, and I was just gonna say and you know, in the Constitution, it considers black men. Is it three fifths of a person like it does not acknowledge the humanity of black men, women were completely not in it. So, you know, y’all we get to affect some change here. Because you look at who are constitutionalist and who are looking at it’s white male, dominated that one. Oh, Hold the patriarchy as it is, and want us to keep living by those rules because we’re not in those rules where they get to make the rules. So it is.

Shannon M. 35:11
And so when I think about physical wellness, and the work that we’re doing right to tool, women with the resources and the stories in the metoo, you’re not by yourself, right? I think about our chapters, Sheila, you and dancing, because that’s something I’m trying to incorporate into more of my days. And then Shiloh glow with the being intentional about what are your daily habits, you know, the heart of Shayla glow is really, they are not going to take care of you. It might be heartbreaking, you might feel some type of way about it tomorrow, they’re still not going to be checking on you. And you’ve got to take care of yourself. So

Sheila K Collins 35:46
and we mustn’t take care of each other. That’s that, do we have to take care of each other? Yeah, I saw where you changed my math. My math is not that great. So it’s the only 102 years we’ve had the vote. Oh, my God. Okay.

Christine Gautreaux 36:01
You are being more gracious than the Yeah, it really thinking about that, because we just celebrated the centennial. Right. Thanks, Eleanor for calling that out that it’s 102 years, right? Yeah, that’s not that long, Young. There’s people living that are 102 years old.

Shannon M. 36:18
Yes. Yeah. And that’s what I think about, you know, in the Our Generation, the generations before, how long has it been since we’ve even had these options? Because the option to be available is one thing, then the literacy and the wisdom behind it the experience and especially passed down generational experience to be able to grow? It hasn’t been that long for us to do that. Yeah, you know, which is why I see so much value and women connected and wisdom, because you could do it by yourself. But why do that when we can all do it as a collective instead and get further quicker

Christine Gautreaux 36:55
when supporting each other through times like this, you know?

Shannon M. 36:59
And I want to be clear to about action steps, right? So getting social support having your ladies around you, whoever is that person for you dancing through it. I think that if we’re in like still point talks about if we’re too logical or in our Yeah, and our logical brain dancing might be minimized, right. But ABS emotion is energy. So get it out, however you express it. And I think that’s a definite healthy way to do it. What else would you say are action items to help somebody

Christine Gautreaux 37:31
I want to add on before we go to Sheila and get those action items. There’s an acid proverb, there’s an African proverb that say hard times require furious dancing.

Sheila K Collins 37:42
Alice Walker has a book about that her? Yes, yeah. Yeah. Furious dancing. Dancing. Yes. Furious dancing.

Shannon M. 37:51
And you also put on the list vote. Right, Sheila, what else would you say?

Sheila K Collins 37:55
Well, yeah, I mean, I remember when Obama was running, and I had a close African American friend, a woman and who thought, Oh, he’s not going to ever get in. I mean, you know, I mean, because it’s so preposterous. They’re not gonna let him in, you know. And so anyway, we had this sort of, you know, and, and I said, No, there’s, we have some hope that that was his deal. Anyway, hope was, you know, let’s not have it be a done deal, you know. And so anyway, of course, we were supposed to be doing a conference in, in, in her town in Los Angeles. And so, here it was that, you know, right before the election, and everybody was things were really, you know, at the fever pitch. And so I said to her, gosh, maybe I’m a white person, maybe I shouldn’t come to this thing. It was a racism conference. If If Obama loses, maybe I shouldn’t come, you know, at but anyway, what was so wonderful there was dancing in the streets in her neighborhood, because it was it happened, you know, and so, again, that’s dancing is how we keep our hope. And then we say, well, okay, maybe it’s unlikely, but if we stay home, or if we, you know, we know it’s not going to happen. So what I’m hoping for now is that young people will vote and, and get their friends to vote because I get it. It’s a lot it Well, I mean, it doesn’t matter. I can’t, you know, I can’t really affect anything, and it’s all stacked against us, and you can get in that place. And it can be even be true in certain places where they, you know, but you have that experience, Christine, where you got your family up one morning to go to the polls, and

Christine Gautreaux 39:49
it was a runoff and our candidate won by four votes, which is the size of my family and the size of the people that I drove to the polls. That story so Again, it is it, it makes a difference. Like we just had primary elections. And then we had runoff here in Georgia. And I was calling everybody I know like go vote go vote. Because it does make a difference on the local, the the county level, the National like it makes a difference all the way up. And if you aren’t a person who researches it, like I mean, the internet, you can pretty much find it at your fingertips, but you have somebody in your life that will do that for you, somebody like that, you know, the skill of self care, partnership power, the third skill and still point, if you I’ve got people that text me all the time and say, Hey, Christina haven’t had a chance to research. I know my values are aligned with yours, who you voted for. And you’ve got people in your life that will share that with you. So Eleanor says my grandmother got the right to vote the year my mom, her sixth child was born, she fought for it. She was my hero. Yeah. Thank you,

Sheila K Collins 40:57
Eleanor. I love hearing that story. Yes. And

Christine Gautreaux 41:01
the fact that we have had the all the women that have come before us, right, and that we don’t want to take it for granted. And, and that there are things like human rights, women’s rights, like we’ve, we all need to be paying attention, because we can’t take them for granted that and using our self care, to sustain our community care that you know, taking care of ourselves, in order to be able to pick it back up and find where we can plug in and do do steps.

Shannon M. 41:34
Yeah, yeah, I would love also to go a little bit deeper into some physical action steps that women who are pregnant can do to take care of themselves. Or maybe women who are in situations where they don’t want to become pregnant can take care of themselves. And I want to be clear that I’m not talking about mixing items in the sink to do an abortion that is illegal in the state. That’s not what I’m talking about. But preventative care, so that we can be intentional about the boundaries that we need for ourselves are how to have those conversations, or just things that a new mom may not know, that can increase her physical wellness. I would love to talk about that too.

Christine Gautreaux 42:18
Well, I mean, right now, we still have the right for contraceptive. And the reason I say right now is because in Justice Clarence Thomas’s ruling, he said that the landmark high court rulings that establish gay rights and contraceptives right should be reconsidered. Now that the federal right to abortion has been revoked. He stated what they want to go over next. And he wrote that those rulings were demonstrably erroneous decisions. So he cited the case Griswold versus Connecticut. And this was the this was a case in which the Supreme Court said married couples have the right to obtain contraceptives. It was seven years later, I think it was seven, it might have been eight, that people who weren’t married could obtain contraceptives. But it’s wild to me that in 2022, we’re even having this conversation, Shannon, but when you when you said what can women do? Like I mean, first of all, it all goes together. Like we can’t take the fact that we can get birth control, usually cheap or pretty free, especially if we have access to clinics or access to insurance, which is proactive to taking care of ourselves if we’re not in a place to have children or not wanting children. It is it is a right that they’re looking at taking away. And so I think that’s all tied together that yes to taking care of ourselves physically, yes to doing what we can. And what we’re talking about about voting and paying attention is a piece of this.

Shannon M. 43:54
Absolutely. Yeah. What about you, Sheila, what do you have for us?

Sheila K Collins 44:01
Well, I have a vision that I I was talking with some people at my husband’s Country Club the other night. And they were pretty negative about everything, who was hopeless, you know? And I said, Do not, do not rule out the ladies yet. It seems to me, this may be that moment when so many people and I’m thinking especially black women, who have been teaching the people in Georgia, how to do it, you know how to how to make your voice heard. But you know, since black and brown people are going to be the most impacted by this. And you don’t want to always encourage people to just vote on one issue. But this issue is so much, you know? I don’t know, I think it’s possible that, that they’ve pushed hard enough on this, they’ve gone far enough that that we’re all as a huge this is my vision, but we’re all as a huge body as one body has one woman’s body going to another, that’s what I’m planning to do. In fact, I just signed up for a training for how to talk with young women about the importance of their vote. And because, in general, younger with younger women and men are not as my old people are the ones that tend to show up at the polls, if unless they, you know, catch, but. But anyway, it’s so there’s a lot of young people that you know, and I think that the African American women know how to do it, and they just may be ready to do it.

Shannon M. 46:04
Yes. And I hear what you’re saying, you know, it’s not lost on me my privilege that I have to be college educated, and salary positions, no children to say, I’ve never been pregnant at 29 is rare. For black female. I feel like in history, you know, of course, I’m not the only one. But I love what you’re saying about the use of voice together. And Christine, you were, I think it was Christine that was talking about earlier how sometimes we might feel like, It’s only us. I don’t know if that was Christine, or Sheila Christine was, I don’t know, I can’t remember. But I think about women connected in wisdom. It reminds me of middle school and high school and the questions that my teacher would ask my teachers will ask on the worksheets, you know, to fill your, your information out, introduce yourself to the class, and some of the questions would be do you think that you can have a positive impact on the world? Something like that, right? And I would always say yes, I’ve always thought of myself as a leader and one at that right? Feel like it’s part of my purpose. But I said, I know I can do more with more people, though. So I’m so excited to build women connected and wisdom, right because me by myself there’s things I don’t know but Christine know Sheila knows you know, we can get together and make some things happen with the listeners Eleanor you know, some things were correct in the years and stuff together, we can make some things shake. So that’s what I would say. One is that you’re not by yourself, we definitely have women connected in wisdom the community. Right. And going back to Handmaid’s Tale, that’s that was an interesting thing to watch to one of the lead male protagonist, his wife, and how her voice was silenced, you know, so when you talk about black woman, and knowing enough to know how to deal with it, and being able to show up in our voice, with women, and everybody in general, that’s what I look forward to is, this is not the time to be silent, you know, do what you can, whether it’s focusing on yourself and the things that you have in your life. Because again, pregnancy does affect your occupational wellness, it affects your financial wellness, and that of the circle around you. But to you know, use your voice and not be silenced because of a decision that was made. But instead, think about what you want the future to look like, and what can we do to make it happen?

Christine Gautreaux 48:21
I think that’s a great way to end to Shannon, because I’m paying attention to time. And yes, she let you know, thank you so much for being here today. Every every show, and I think we were doing this back on show number four when you first came on. But you know, we like to do a hashtag wisdom in action. We like to talk but think about this conversation that we just had. And if you had to create a hashtag about what would your wisdom and action be from this conversation? What would that be?

Sheila K Collins 49:03
Well, I’m not that great about making hashtags. But it would be something like an answer in November, at the ballot box, because it matters that it just so happens that lined up. It was one particular of the two parties. It was one particular party that was more it more responsible. And the worst of it is that even the people who were not in it, went along with it. So So it’s time it’s time. It’s time. So let’s form her at the ballot box in November.

Christine Gautreaux 49:52
I like that Shannon, what about you?

Shannon M. 49:55
I like that. I’m going to say We reserve our joy. I love that, you know, when you’re dancing, you’re in joy. I think that if you’re in your purpose, anybody who’s in their purpose could say that about what brings them joy, right. And when I think about having kids, I think about the joy of it, you know, I don’t think about James Marion Sims in all of the pieces of his story, I think about joy. So that’s what I’ll say, because that’s how I still want to look forward to having children

Christine Gautreaux 50:26
and love that, I think mine this week would be hashtag pay attention, pay attention, pay attention to the hearings that are going on. Even if you can’t watch them in person, get pay attention, pay attention to these rulings, and what’s being said about them. You know, I know it’s easy to want to pull the covers over our head or not pay attention to that, because it’s not fun. But you know, Sheila, I think you were for years had been my teacher on this, that we can’t do spiritual bypass on this, we can’t pretend it doesn’t exist. In order to effectively respond, we have to know what’s going on. And we can do it in incremental steps or little doses and take care of ourselves along the way. But I think my hashtag would be pay attention. So we can respond effectively. But, Sheila, thank you so much for being here today. I’m so grateful for you and our work together in the world. Before we put you in the green room. Do you want to invite people to our Tuesday class? Well, sure, it’s answer Friday one. Yeah.

Sheila K Collins 51:33
Well, I have that little Friday one that I you know, I was trying, I couldn’t just rely on you for this techy stuff I had practice. That’s my practicing techie, on Friday. So on Friday at 1030. Eastern time, I have a Interplay class and whoever shows up and we just play and mostly we play with the platform, and try to make it do stuff that it doesn’t want to do. So, you know, that’s that’s part of it. But the one that you and I do together on Tuesday has been going on for over two years. And it’s just a fabulous, radical self care. And people that are caregivers, professionally or are in their families are many of them. double duty, you know, if you’re the caregiver, and it professionally, you’ll be pulled out. And so anyway, that’s at 1130, right? Yeah,

Christine Gautreaux 52:29
it is. Yeah. And we’re going to put in our show notes, we’re going to put your website, we’re going to put your blog so people can get in touch with you and learn and then they’re going to be hearing your name as this book comes out in September.

Sheila K Collins 52:43
Right, I forgot. I also have some things that I’m doing on the reimagined platform on the art of grieving. That’s right with some other women because I’ve invited a woman from from England to come and be with me on one of them. Art of grieving and we’re looking at grieving as an art and getting better at it. And we’re looking at how the arts inspire our our grieving our lives and how to grieve.

Christine Gautreaux 53:11
We will put a link to that too. Thank you so much. And I want to give a shout out to Eleanor for being here and listening with us all day to day. And she says hashtag girl power is real power. Yes, it is. Yes, ma’am. It is. So that was a good conversation. Yes. I’m

Shannon M. 53:29
sorry. She didn’t get to say bye. I was writing down Eleanor’s hashtag. But yes, it was a good conversation. And for me, that’s the biggest thing is I want us to I think as women out my vision she was talking about a vision is to hear these conversations. You know, pregnancy affects a lot of people that choosing not to be pregnant affects a lot of people. Even if we don’t know what we would do, I like to be well versed in what the options are and again, how to be healthy, so grateful to be connected. Definitely.

Christine Gautreaux 54:02
Anything you need to shout out happening over at Shiloh glow anything we’re so grateful for their sponsorship and yes. Is there anything you want to tell us like a teaser of what’s coming?

Shannon M. 54:13
Who teasers I know I’ve given a few already. I will say we’re going back to glass if you’re listening and you haven’t been listening to every show, we are changing the containers again so that you guys can have the travel Glow Kit that passes through TSA and the home Glow Kit and the glass that you love to preserve that natural product. And it’s sold out online right now. So if you want to get on the pre pre sell list just message us at Shayla glow.com and we will get your information and it’s coming soon. I’m excited. We’re almost done with the rebranding and it’s been great to to revamp it and to see how much has grown in the two years

Christine Gautreaux 54:51
that I was calling your name. I went and got my toes and nails done this week. And I meant to give a shout out to The Salon because it’s the one above Jgu. And the nail tech there was fabulous when we were talking about Shiloh glow, because she was talking about, I’d come in from camping, and my I was pretty raggedy and she’s like, Do you know why this happens? And I said, Well, I can tell you why it didn’t happen for me. I forgot to take mache low glow camping when I have that product with me. And so I was telling her all about you and your products. And yeah, it was it was a good conversation. So well, my friend. I know it is that time. It’s hard to believe and hours gone by but I’m so grateful for this conversation and so grateful to be connected to you.

Shannon M. 55:37
Me too. Me too. Thank you so much. And as always, ladies, thank you so much for listening. We’ll see you back next week Live at Five for season eight recap. In the meantime, don’t forget be well be wise and be whole

Unknown Speaker 55:55
thing thanks for listening. This has been the women connected and wisdom podcast on air live on Wednesdays at 5 pm. Eastern via Facebook and YouTube. Be sure to like share and subscribe be part of the conversation and get connected at women connected in wisdom.com.

BE WELL ♥ BE WISE ♥ BE WHOLE

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